PA State Forest Management Plan

[ddechri]

Yes, the email and snail mail comments all count. In fact, it would be best to write one for each of you instead of lumping them together. The only way major changes to their policy are going to happen is if we show some sort of majority in the public comments. That means numbers.

Everyone has to write in or we won't get anywhere!

- Dave

[SteveTheFolkie]

Interesting process, isn't it?  I've been involved in a few lobbying efforts in my dear, dim past (mountain bike access, restricting vehicles and horses from the Appalachian trail, trying to get dual sport motorcycles allowed on ATV trails, amongst others that have the potential to be a bit polarizing on a non-political forum) - and numbers do count.  From what I've observed, letters  (even if from a large number of people) that are NOT form letters delivered by hand to state representatives are more effective than either those sent by snail or electronic mail.  This personal touch puts a face (or faces) to a concern.

What doesn't seem to work:

Being obnoxious - for obvious reasons
Mass gatherings (they tend to attract negative press, except for the ABATE folks - not sure how they pull it off)
Profanity - again - it's obvious - if you want to ensure that you'll never get a meeting with your representative - swear at 'em or call them a dirty name.
Defiance of the law
Fudged statistics (data manipulated to prove your point, without defining your methodology and without the offer of your base (un-altered) data).

What does seem to work:

A professional attitude and appearance
A well prepared, brief presentation for the representative
Large numbers of letters
Letters from small business owners who are directly or indirectly impacted by the activity
Examples (best if in your presentation) of good you've done, on a group or individual basis, in the past (examples - planting trees in burned areas, erosion control projects, examples of supporting charitable organizations through your group)

When attending the meetings with the DCNR having notes from a meeting or meetings with one or more state representatives adds a bit more powder to your charge - the DCNR needs the legislature for funding - if they know or suspect you've got the "ear" of some state representatives you can use that for leverage -

Your personal party affiliation or support of the representative in question doesn't matter - all that matters is that you reside within their district - in fact - if you normally don't support a person BUT imply that their support in this matter just might sway you to supporting them in the next election - you might make an influential friend.

I'll be doing some research and letter writing - I'd love to drive my jeep off-road on DCNR lands (without staying on their designated roads) - but I just thought I'd share some of what I've learned over the years - maybe it'll help.

And keep in mind - these folks work for you - that's why they're "representatives" -

Steve

[Ebeck]

Somewhat of a crisis has come up
I will not make the meeting tonight.

Sorry about the late notice.

[ddechri]

Ebeck,

I understand, things come up. Make sure you write in and say you wanted to make the meeting.


Was anyone else able to make the Carlisle meeting to represent the club?
If not you better get those comments in. Any work I do for access will be in vain if there aren't numbers backing me up!


Steve,

Thanks for the thoughts. Based on what I have learned over the last week or two, I plan to take this further. Maybe I can get a progress update in the newsletter monthy. Since we don't seem to be getting support from the membership, I might need to look for some political backing. I think anyone can see the access given to ATV and snowmobiles and scratch their head why 4WD isn't included. Plus, the attitude at the meeting was that the BoF is looking for input. I want to make sure they get it. Then they can't blame us on the lack of progress. Send me your direct email and maybe we can combine our efforts. I know of at least two trails we used to wheel on that have been closed. Even if they have good reasons for teh closure, they should replace them with other trails that are similar.

- Dave

[04RckyMtn]

I had a couple of thoughts about this on the way down to the Quadratec tent sale today. Has anyone included pictures of say the jeep show, or any of the big gatherings at Rausch(ie: crawl for the cure). Those numbers would speak volumes to amount of people this affect to the BOF. Also any kind of information that can be gathered by the amount of "tourist" ,for lack of a better word, dollars that are generated by these types of events. This type of info would be great because we can prove that our recreational activity also provides income to the state and local municipalities. If this organization of other 4wd club has letters from the state or local goverments for cleanup efforts or the like, those could included as well. That would speak to the fact that we as a group are already claiming responsiblity for our chosen recreation and would help with the self policing issues.

[ddechri]

In at least one of my emails, I added links for the PA Jeeps, MAFWDA, UFWDA and recommended the BoF have some kind of presence at the new show. So, they should be able to get to the PAJEEPS website and probably this forum. I hope someone from the BoF is monitoring this thread.

Here is the response that was sent to Rick Bear and I based on the comments we sent in. It is interesting that while I didn't copy Rick on any of my letters, whoever is getting all the comments lumped the response together based on our affiliation. Which is good because that means they are getting read and looked at closely. WHEN YOU SEND YOUR COMMENTS IN, send me a copy or post it here. I'd like to keep track of the position we are presenting as a club.
__________________________________
Dear Mr. DeChristopher & Mr. Bear:

Mr. DeChristopher: This reply is follow-up to your conversation with Scott Rimpa, DCNR-Bureau of Forestry’s Recreation Section, and Kurt Leitholf, DCNR-Conservation and Recreation Advisory Council’s Executive Director; and,

Mr. Bear: This reply is follow-up to your inquiry letter to the DCNR-Bureau of Forestry’s Resource Planning Section, both in regards to Off-Highway Vehicle and 4x4 trails on DCNR-Bureau of Forestry administered lands.

The DCNR-Bureau of Forestry has restricted mileage of Drivable Trail road class.  Drivable Trails are limited maintenance roads that are open to licensed motor vehicles.  The 435 miles of roads in this category (open to the public, are for use by licensed, registered, and inspected motor vehicles) typically receive limited use and are not recommended for low clearance vehicles.  Road maintenance is limited to the amount necessary to control soil erosion and sedimentation pollution.

    The following forest districts administer Drivable Trails:

         Buchanan State Forest, 23 miles
         Tuscarora State Forest, 25 miles
         Rothrock State Forest, 4 miles
        Bald Eagle State Forest, 86 miles
        Moshannon State Forest, 86 miles
         Sproul State Forest, 148 miles
         Tiadaghton State Forest, 6 miles
        Elk State Forest, 10 miles
        Tioga State Forest, 26 miles
        Weiser State Forest, 12 miles
         Loyalsock State Forest, 9 miles

This class of roads are in flux.  They can be closed to the public at any time due to negative environmental impacts and degradation. 

State forest roads, which are open to the public, are for use by licensed, registered, and inspected motor vehicles.  DCNR-Bureau of Forestry does not currently offer Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) trails.  However, private entities throughout Pennsylvania provide an avenue for OHV use.  If you have access to the world wide web, you may view a couple of web links to riding areas at: http://www.offroaders.com or http://www.enduro.4t.com/riding.htm .

If you would like additional information on the Bureau of Forestry’s Drivable Trail system, please contact the forest district you’d like to visit.  This contact information can be found at: http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/stateforests/index.aspx.  Thank you for taking the time to write about your concerns.

Matt Beaver
Recreation Section
Operations & Recreation Division
Bureau of Forestry
Department of Conservation & Natural Resources
______________________________________________________

It may not sound like it, but this is a good response to my some of my questions. It has the official tone it needs to when communicating with the public. The fact that 3 letters were responded to at once means this is probably our official contact for the issue. It indicates what is currently available, the status of what is available, and alludes to what the BoF position is as far as access and maintenance. It's a good start and I plan to respond back to it.

While I don't know what Rick's original comments where, it looks like there may be two different categories of vehicles here:

1. Street legal, registered, insured  - 4x4.
2. Non-street legal, registration/insurance questionable - OHV.

OHV can be confused with ATV in some of the BoF documents I have read. So be careful how you use that term.
At first, I am mostly interested in the 4x4 category. This is a large majority of the club and the type of trails we are most likely going to have or gain access to. At this point it is easier to deal with because PennDot already takes care of managing the vehicle end of it. Just for your information ATV's must be registered and the driver insured for it to use them on State Forest land. Plus, lets face it, the BoF is not going to cut a trail over a boulder ridge just for us. Plus, I'm not sure if I want them too.

I posted the trail mileage and forest location with reservation. I want to keep everyone in the know, but I don't want our reputation destroyed. If you go to check out these "drivable trails" make sure you are adhering to Tread Lightly! Also, make sure you're not driving a leaker!

Report back where you went and what you thought of it here. I'll start compiling a database which will help build our case.

Sorry, another long post, but it's a big, delicate issue and there's a lot of info to share.

- Dave

[Rick_Bear]

Dave,

I had made reference to both OHV & 4x4 access. I felt it best as not to exclude anything since "OHV" is utilize in much of their documentation. Obviously "4x4" access has a much better outlook than does "OHV".

[Ebeck]

I will make sure I write in ASAP

[FSJNate]

I was talking to my Outdoor Recreation professor at Penn State and he said a big thing that helped the ATV cause was that the registering of ATV's created a source of money that could be used.  He said that if we were to propose some sort of yearly permit system to have access to trails, it might help influence the BOF to consider 4x4's more.  He also said that there are some people on the SNOWMOBILE AND ATV ADVISORY COMMITTEE (SAAC) who would support 4x4 recreation.  If we could find these persons, then maybe would could try to have a little backing from an already standing advisory committee.

[Rick_Bear]

Interesting point Nate. My third letter is beginning...

[ddechri]

The deadline for public input is almost upon us (Oct. 31st).

What have you done to help open up PA public land for 4x4 trail riding???

Last weekend, Grant, my brother Joe, and I went to Tuscarora S. F. and experienced some of the roughest miles of open "drivable trails" that they had to offer to us there. There were only a few that I wouldn't drive my Corolla on. In correspondance with one of the Assisant Foresters, he gave me this quote to use in my public feedback, "If it requires 4wd we generally close it to public access because of environmental concerns."

So that is it. Yes, PA state forest land is truely beautiful to see and experience, but if you want to need your 4WD you may as well go somewhere else according to their current policy. And it's not the Forester's fault, this directive is written into their management plan based on past abuse.

They (the Foresters) were very eager to hear what I thought and encouraged me to write in additional comments if I wanted that policy changed. He even hinted at a technical rock trail if the conservationalist wouldn't scream so loud. But they aren't going to change anything just for me. We as a recreational users need to express who we are and what we would like to responibly use our land for. Only the numbers will make a differnce in their direction for the future.

Remember, Oct. 31st is the deadline. Do your part for your sport.

Here's the link to submit your comments:

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/update.aspx

And remember they are just people doing their job too. They are listening, just tell them what you want, it's that simple.

- Dave

[Jeepnharleymomma]

I did my duty. For some reason I don't make it to the bottom of the forum all the time to post

[emgraz]

Matt and I both sent in e-mails on monday, I forgot to send you guys a copy--my comcast e-mail doesn't save sent messages unless you physically click on "Save"....we got ours in tho...hope it helps!!!

Erica

[Jeremy]

Emails were sent in on oct 30 here.  To reiterate personal letters mean much more than any petition or form letter. 

[92YJ]

  For what its worth, myself and a few friends who also wheel got e-mails sent before the deadline.  I've been part of the campaign to keep trails at Moab open for the last few years and understand how important it is to let them know what we are thinking.